Thread #9 - Case of Shmuel Juravel (Baltimore, MD and Savannah, GA)
A jury trial will continue on August 15, 2006 on the case of Samuel Juravel. Shmuel Juravel has been held in custody since his arrest back on Feb 21, 2006.
Jury Trial Continued
August 14 at 9:00 am.
Judge Coogler
United States Circuit Court - Alabama Northern District
Hugo L. Black U. S. Courthouse
Birmingham, AL
August 14 at 9:00 am.
Judge Coogler
United States Circuit Court - Alabama Northern District
Hugo L. Black U. S. Courthouse
Birmingham, AL
Shmuel faces 70 years in Federal prison without parole plus a $750,000.00 fine.
Agents from the U.S. Postal Inspection Service and the FBI arrested Shmuel Juravel (Feb. 21, 2005) at a Birmingham hotel after he arranged to have sex with a minor.
Juravel grew up in Baltimore, MD. Around fifteen years ago the first allegations were made against Shmuel of child sexual molestation. According to statements made on the various threads, survivors and their parents sought help from Rabbi Moshe Heinemann who said he would take care of things. Needless to say, nothing happened.
Shmuel is the son of Rabbi Moshe and Shulamis Juravel of Baltimore, MD. Rabbi Juravel is employeed as a teacher at the Torah Institute of Baltimore. He is the nephew of Rabbi Dovid Juravel and Rebbitzen Chana Juravel.
Samuel Juravel has 3 attorneys, 2 from the Law firm of Sirote and Permutt.
- James Sturdivant - Birmingham, AL
- Robin Beardsley - Birmingham, AL
The prosecuting attorneys are:
- John H England, III - Assistant US Attorney, Northern District of. Alabama, Southern Division
- Alice H Martin - Assistant US Attorney, Northern District of. Alabama, Southern Division
Due to the number of postings on Thread #8, the discussion of Shmuel Juravel will continue here on Thread #9.
posted by Jewish Survivors at Saturday, July 08, 2006
76 Comments:
There is no such thing as "what can you do, my evil inclination overpowered me" as they say in the frum community.
With Juravel's premeditated acts, he must realize that he alone is responsible for his actions, something that I believe for Juravel is very difficult to do.
Anyone care get a group together and drive a couple of vans to Birmingham to watch the trial of the little perverted freak?
I disagree with Bobby, but he is a good guy and I will not attack him. Bobby is smart, but he has almost no experience practicing law. He is a businessman. Maybe it is a blessing that Bobby is defending Shmuel. He is not the trial attorney I would want defending me. He may be your best bet if you want to open a Chili's restaraunt, but not when you are up against life in prison. This situation is analogous to the movie Sleepers, where the heros set the sicko gaurds up to take a hard fall by having the killers' best friend prosecute him. They also hire a blithering drunken idiot to defend the guilty. I do not think that Bobby is taking this case to bury his friend like Sleepers, but with his experience (even though he is intelligent) he is like the blithering, drunken idiot (Hoffman).
CALL TO ACTION - Case of Mordecai Tendler
Please contact Court TV’s website, Requests them to cover the hearing Mordecai Tendler Vs. Bloggers.
toll-free viewer information line: 1-800-268-7856
Also send emails to all addresses here:
http://www.courttv.com/contact/
For more information on the case go here:
http://www.citizen.org/pressroom/release.cfm?ID=2233
http://www.theawarenesscenter.org/tendler_mordecai.html
http://jewishsurvivors.blogspot.com/2006/07/mordecai-tendler-can-not-violate.html
It's a long ride to Birmingham. The odds are this trial will go on for months. I wonder how many continuances there will be.
I think we should try to get this trial on court TV too!
I would love to put Heinemann on the stand after taking the oath, and have him spill the beans on all the cases he said he would take care of.
bobby isn't shmuel's attorney
Whoever is shmuel's attorney has a hard road ahead. Even if he's convicted on a class d misdemeanor for having sex with a computer, the minute he loses a second trial, class A felony status will kick him in for life. Two convictions and you are out of the game. It's a sad story for everyone involved, victims, families, every Jew, nothing to gloat about.
What are the chances that the attention generated from UOJ will trigger significant reform in Baltimore?
Question for the poster above:
If you don't do anything will anything change?
You do what you can until a difference is made and our children are safe.
If Bobby isn't juravel's atty,who is ? The other atty names. Is he still handling the case or did Bobby finally figure out that juravel is only a friend to juravel. Perhaps Bobby finally understands that juravel molested or intended to molest young children,some of these children are known to Bobby. That will all come out in the Savannah trial.
Also perhaps Bobby has come to the understsanding that juravel could have molested his under age daughters if he didn't like boys so much. Would Bobby defend juravel if that had occured. After all, isn't that what friends are for ?
I hope the previous blogger is correct about Bobby's lack of experience as a criminal defense atty. How in the world can this juravel person be defended ?
I am confused. Was there a pre-trial hearing today or not? who is Shmuel's lawyer?
According to the Clerks office at the Federal Court house, Shmuel has 3 attorneys from the Law firm of Sirote and Permutt.
http://www.sirote.com/
James Sturdivant - Birmingham, AL
L. Robert Isaacson - Savannah, GA
Robin Beardsley - Birmingham, AL
was there a pre-trial hearing today or not?
When I called the clerk's office the other day, I was informed that there was a change, yet they were not sure when or why.
All parties (Juravel, his attorneys and the federal prosecuting attorneys) agreed to a jury trial. I don't know when it began, yet it was continued to August 14 as I stated earlier.
FYI:
The prosecuting attorneys from the US Attorney's office in Birmingham, AL. They areare:
John H England, III
Alice H Martin
"You do what you can until a difference is made and our children are safe."
As lay members of the Baltimore frum community, what actions should we undertake to ensure children are safe?
I decided not to send my son to TI based on what some might call L"H.
Also, I interact with an accused member of our community almost every Shabbos. I try to look past the allegations and see the good in him, but I have lost all respect for him. In fact, I no longer blindly respect someone with the title of "Rabbi".
The trial has not yet started. The word "continue" is used with respect to legal proceedings to mean that a proceeding has been postponed. As I stated in my earlier posts, Mr. Juravel requested the postponement so that his attorneys could prepare for the trial of this case and to give the court sufficient time to rule on certian pre-trial motions Mr. Juravel has filed. With respect to the jury, the defendant has a constitutional right to a jury trial regardless of whether the government "consents" or not. As it stands now, the trial will commence on August 14, 2006--unless it is postponed again.
FYI: For those of you who are wondering why there are so many sex offenders in Jewish community in Baltimore, I think UOJ discovered the answer
This is regarding the case of Rabbi Eisemann at Ner Israel
Un-Orthodox Jew said...
What drives me absolutely crazy is that Baltimore had two months notice to retire Eiseman and avoid this. I just don't get it!
I am studying this case in part of a clerkship here at Emory.It will be a difficult case for all involved. I see it as being very honorable for mr. isaacson to participate; he is a true friend. the key for mr juravel's team in getting a light sentence is quite simple: a. mr juravel's clean record and b. no one in savannah or baltimore appears sure enough of his or her stance to establish himeslf or herself as a witness. hence, my forecast will be that mr juravel will be found guilty. however his sentence will be on the light side due to the aforementioned reasons. let the chips fall where they may.
Key to thriving in Baltimore:
1 - Lay low!
2 - Don't try to be a Macher.
3 - Stay out of shul politics.
4 - Teach your kids the skills they need to sift through the BS.
5 - Enjoy the positives Baltimore has to offer!
There will be people that come forth from Savannah regarding juravel's actions against several young men in the community but after the Federal trial. Two seperate issues,one federal one local although even on the local basis,Federal laws were broken.
Juravel faces up to 75 years in prison, Perhaps he will get a lighter sentence..Perhaps he will get off with serving only a third of what he faces or 25 years. Perhaps he will do better than that and only get 15 years..Then he might face the other charges in Savannah and Baltimore.
This person is evil,using anyone that he can use, which was his mode while he was in Savannah.
And poor Bobby, being suckered in to defend him, not understanding that had juravel liked little girls,rather then liile boys, perhaps he would have molested his under age daughters.
And I keep asking the question; Would Bobby be juravels "friend" if juravel molested a member of Bobby's family. I mean,how far does "friendship go".
Right on,Bobby.
There will be people that come forth from Savannah regarding juravel's actions against several young men in the community but after the Federal trial. Two seperate issues,one federal one local although even on the local basis,Federal laws were broken.
Juravel faces up to 75 years in prison, Perhaps he will get a lighter sentence..Perhaps he will get off with serving only a third of what he faces or 25 years. Perhaps he will do better than that and only get 15 years..Then he might face the other charges in Savannah and Baltimore.
This person is evil,using anyone that he can use, which was his mode while he was in Savannah.
And poor Bobby, being suckered in to defend him, not understanding that had juravel liked little girls,rather then liile boys, perhaps he would have molested his under age daughters.
And I keep asking the question; Would Bobby be juravels "friend" if juravel molested a member of Bobby's family. I mean,how far does "friendship go".
Right on,Bobby.
a clerkship at emory what? law school? undergrad? are you a student? what exactly do you know? people have come forward so you are wrong about that. you do not seem to have a good grasp of the federal system. the federal system has mandatory sentencing guidelines, which means if Shmuel is found guilty he must get the related sentence.
What does "on ther light side" mean? How many years is considered "on the light side"?
5 , 10 , 15 , 20 , 25 , Probation,none of the above. What's your educated guess.
And if for some fluke of justice,he is found not guilty, the stigma will remain,(rightfully so), with him for the rest of his life. Wonder when he comes to visit his good friend Bobby, if the two will venture out together in the Savannah community. I don't see wht not ; that's what friend's
are for !
Me think Bobby or some of those who back Shmuel is pulling everyone's leg.
Me think they are playing games with your heads because they enjoy making you panic.
Me thinks it's best if you ignore the idiots.
Me thinks who ever said they are doing a clerkship at Emory is not being honest.
Pre Trial motions from juravel:
Help, The Devil made me do it.
I promise I won't do it again,at least in Savannah or Baltimore.
I promise not to use my computor
to look at children's porn, really I do.
The Devil made me do it.
But I have friends...and suits as well.
My friend Bobby will back me in the restaurant business, of course,
it going to be a children's restaurant and fun place.
I've never been to Michael Jackson's home but If I'm invited !!
All the stuff they found was planted....by the devil.
I promise not to bother little boys anymore. I'll only associate with girls, 13 and over.(what that's to young ? O.K. 16 and over.
I promise to uphold the constitution of the U. S..
Question: What do you call a child molester who gets caught ?
A child molester !
I am from baltimore. i grew up hearing the rumors about juravel. talk about surviving in baltimore - you learn early on who to avoid and stay far from. anyway, would it help the case at all if i come forward. i don't know of any specifics - just that the word out there in TI was stay away from R' Juravel's son. and i did. when he got engaged i felt like we should say something but we were shut up rather quickly. i was young and stupid for not listening to my gut feeling and believing them that everything was okay...
Emory Student: If you were REALLY following this case, you would know that the government intends to offer the following evidence (among other) at the trial of Mr. Juravel:
"At the trial of this matter, the government will present the testimony of a 13 year old boy who will testify that during the months leading up to his 13th birthday, he began taking private reading lessons from the defendant in order to prepare for his bar mitzvah. During the lessons, the defendant placed his hand on the outside of the child’s pants, directly over his private area and that the defendant’s hand would remain in that position for the majority of the lesson. The government further expects the child to testify that many of his friends took similar lessons from the defendant."
In addition, the blogger who noted that there are mandatory sentencing guidelines which govern the sentencing in this case and who inferred that Mr. Juravel will likely not get a "light" sentence is partially correct. The sentencing guidelines do govern in this case, however, the guidelines allow the judge to take mitigating facts and circumstances into consideration which would likely somewhat reduce the sentence that Mr. Juravel would receive should he be found guilty.
his hand there without arousing said child is sinister, but if that's all there is, is that molestation? Does this fit the charge "entice, arouse, etc." to qualify for federal conviction?
In the small minded town of Savannah, small minds have already convicted him and accused him of "molesting." Does placing a hand on the outside of a young man's pants constitute molestation under the law? I don't know.
It doesn't look good, sound healthy or smart, but is it a crime if it goes no further?
The pornography charges seem pretty strong, assuming he actually had a collection or downloaded many images off the internet. If so, a year is the minimum. On that, they have him with the evidence. Possession of condoms, a camera also point in a sinister direction. It's not clear that he ever did the worst.
me think "me think" doesn't think very much.
is there any way we can read the motions from the court?
to the lawyer following this case:
So, if he's found guilty in this case and "let off" with a lite sentence of 3 years or more or less, circumstances depending, what happens if he's tried one more time, either in Federal court or civil court in Savannah and/or Baltimore? If found guilty on unrelated charges, wouldn't a judge be bound by the federal guidelines and have to treat him as a repeat offender?
2. If accused of several counts and found guilty, do the sentencing guidelines come into play for each count, or do they just pick the highest one and tally up his score?
Dear Community
I am Bob Isaacson , I am an attorney and a long time friend of the Juravels.
I am writing because I feel the need to clarify a few things publicly.
As an attorney, the same with any attorney, I am allowed to visit inmates in jail or prison. Based on this, I have visited Shmuel Juravel a few times in the county jail where he currently is housed. Then, approximately 6 weeks ago, I was informed by the jail that I needed to enter an appearance of counsel with Jim Sturdivant’s firm (the Alabama firm that is defending Shmuel) in order to continue to visit him. So I entered a petition with the Federal District Court so that I could continue these visits.
I am not representing Shmuel as a criminal defense attorney. I am simply visiting Shmuel because I feel it is the right thing to do. I did not feel it concerned anyone else, but if some are offended, I apologize.
The only person that I felt deserved an explanation was Janie. I spoke with Janie before I went to see Shmuel and she is aware of my visits. From the beginning, Nancy and I decided that we would do what we can to support Janie, the boys and Shmuel. We do not believe this support is mutually exclusive.
For the record, I will say this: I believe there is much goodness within every person, including Shmuel Juravel and despite the horrific acts for which he has been accused, I believe the sentence he is facing is outside the bounds of justice. And, if he is in prison for the next 25 or 30 years, I believe we have some responsibility as a community to help him live as an observant Jew, to give him some compassion, and to enable Shmuel, if possible, to do something constructive with the rest of his life.
Also, for the record, I am not paying for Shmuel’s defense.
If anyone wishes to contact me directly for any reason – please feel free to do so.
Bob Isaacson
bob.isaacson@gmail.com
Thank you
His federal sentence could run togethor with his state sentences. For example, he may receive 30 years in federal prison and 20 years in state prison and the may run at the same time. On the other hand, he could also receive a light federal sentence like 5 or 10 years and then have to serve another 30 years in state prison. The state and federal systems are seperate. Neither court is binding on the other except as pertains to their subject matter jurisdiction.
Also, there is a federal court system and a state court system, not a federal and civil system. Within state and federal court you can either have a civil matter or a criminal matter. Shmuel's trials will be criminal regardless of whether it is state or federal court. Nothing about any of his actions qualifyas as ivil matters
Shmuel has done more than grope just one child. It was many children over many years. Some of the children that were violated the most are being more reluctant to speak out. Some of them have confided their experiences, but not to the authorities.
This person also is guiltly of violating postal regulations ; sending money through the mail for illegial solitation of minors ,
crossing state lines to commit a felony on children,posession of child porn, etc,etc. etc.
So many charges and that's just on the Federal level. Wait until the Savannah and Baltimore charges are fully filed.
Good thing he didn't violate Bobby's family,but there girls, not little boys.
Go ahead Bobby,defend your friend !
Thank you Mr. Issacson for your explination to the community. I certanly clears many misconceptions
of your position regarding juravel.
I believe we all should be supporting Janie and the boys. They deserve all of our support.
As far as shmuel is concerned,that's where I truly take issue with your stance.
Shmuel was / is not an observant Jew, not even close. As pointed out by many posters, shmuel came to Shul but rarely prayed.This was a social club for him and a fashion show. An ego out of control,a person out of control, wanting to be in control of all.
If he was an observant Jew, he certainly would not have violated CHILDREN as he did.
I simply have no compassion for this person. He approached many of the children in this community and left a mark on all. Let's offer compassion for the victims, not the person responsible for the degredation he put these children through.
Bobby, would you,as a father, still find compassion for this person if your son or daughter were violated ? I would hope not.
Bobby, he violated all that a Jew believes in. He posed as one person while being another. He fooled many, took advantage of all.
Caused untold misery to his wife,children "friends" in-laws, parents,community,rabbi's, everyone that he came in contact with. To continue to say he's your fiend shows a degree of insensitivity to your real friends,neighbors, the Jewish community in general. Shmuel is not your fiend,Bobby. He will use you and he has used all in this community for his own end. Had he not pretended to be "an observant Jew" , perhaps Hasham would not have come down on him as he did, but I truly believe that Hasham took action to stop the desiccation
that shmuel was putting forth under the guise as an observent Jew.
Bobby,rethink your "compassion thought" toward juravel, and thank Hasham that this person didn't violate your children and he did with some of your friends children in this community.
I think bob isaacson is a mensch, a good person, a good Jew.
Justice will be served and Gd is in the details. The whiners who invoke hasham but cannot understand how pathetic this whole situation is do not speak for hasham. Hashem will judge us all, but understands the Jewish heart.
I don't believe that we as a community have a responsibility to schmuel to help him live as an observent Jew. I believe that that responsibility should come from shmuel and shmuel alone, if he wants to do that.
He certainly hasn't / didn/t live the life as a responsible Jew. He fooled all, playing us all as fools ; gained access to our trust and children, and your asking me to help him live as a Jew. Only he can do that and I truly doubt that he can. He's a phony,living in a dream world of his own,not caring about anything except himself.
Certainly not caring about the children that he molested or their parents, or his own family, or his in laws , or his "friends". He lived a life of deception,control,preceived power and he got caught. (Thank G-d he got caught) (that was the comment my son said when told he got caught). He's out of society. Hope he stays out.
Amen to the above. Even though it's an anonymous poster, he / she are saying things that need to be said,expressing sentaments that most of the community feel but simply don't publish.
Mr. Isaccson should be left out of it all. He's not the issue, Juravel is the issue. Nothing anyone says regarding Juravel,will change Mr. Isaccson's position, misguided as it is. If he wants to claim Juravel as a friend , so what. He can go visit him in prison,every weekend for the next 12 years and take comfort that he's his friend.
This blog serves the victims well. They can rant and scream and complain and the world will listen.
rant, scream and complain. Buy a billboard, airtime on radio. Post pictures on the internet. Post everywhere and have a nice day.
I haved lived in Baltimore my entire life and know very well some of the people being discussed.
some facts:
1 balto has one of the biggest orthodox communities outside of NY. even if all the names being discussed are guilty, that makes up less than 1% of 1%.
2 maybe many balto names are listed because this web site comes from balto and maybe it shows balto is more willing to talk about it. do you really think it isn't much worse in NY, for example.
3 juravel moved to savannah because he married a girl from there. the rabbis didn't kick him out.
4 i know the leading rabbis. they are extremely protective of the entire community. if s/o was a proven threat, they would publicize it. but they aren't going to ruin s/o based on a rumor.
5 eisgrau has helped so many children, you can't count them. NONE have complained. I met a boy who stayed in his home for awhile - the boy owes his life to eisgrau. i got to know this boy well - he only praised eisgrau.
6 eisgrau has 9 or 10 children. they live in a small house, a few kids to a bedroom. it also is an open house, people coming and going, even into the night and over night. all the other children only admire their father and mentor.
7 this one daughter admits she was in a mental hospital.
8 she accuses a few people of harrassment, included her saintly grandfather, her mother's father.
9 I know her therapist, weisbord. she is honest and professional and would not warp her judgement due to pressure.
10 she accuses the rabbis of things they wouldn't do. in fact, she accuses everyone in her story.
11 the civil authorities also don't believe her.
12 except for her story, which ALL involved reject, there is no other evidence. i saw one boy who didn't like the way eisgrau treated him. every principal and teacher has 1 or 2 out of hundreds who hold a grudge.
that's not called evidence.
13 is it possible that eisgrau spanked his daughter when she was young? many parents do (and many more did).
14 those who have looked into the evidence have all given eisgrau a clean bill of health. how can people who are reading unconfirmed bits and pieces come to any reasonable conclusion? shouldn't we give the benefit of the doubt to those who are known for their widespread righteousness, moral good character, and wisdom?
15 isn't eisgrau innocent until proven guilty? especially since he has literally hundreds who will testify for his absolute kindness.
should we convict him based on a mental patient who has a grudge against all her parents and grandparents?
First, I could not do what Bob Isaacson is doing. I am glad that he is however. I want Shmuel locked up for a long time so he can't hurt any one else. However, I feel bad about throwing away a Jew or human being. I am glad there is someone able to go see him and be friendly. I have felt guilty that I can't bring myself to do so but feel better knowing you are there for him as a human being. You must be more righteous than I.
I have said all along that the main thing is to protect others from Shmuel and the harm he can do.
I want him locked up for as long as possible so he can't hurt others.
A poster said "Some of the children that were violated the most are being more reluctant to speak out. Some of them have confided their experiences, but not to the authorities." This is a major part of the problem.
We need to tell those boys or men that they need to come forward to the authorities. The FBI, Savannah Police, and Savannah courts will do all they can to minimize any trauma for them. District Attorney Spencer Lawton's Victim Witness Assistance team is a model for the entire country. They will be able to provide excellent assistance in getting through this and make sure you get all the help you need. However, if evidence is not provided, conviction is not possible. If there is no conviction, Shmuel could be released from prison.
We all want the Rabbis to take a strong stance to get this poison that threatens our children out of our communities. Whether it is other Rabbis or other so called "frum" people, we want them out. However, when someone is a victim and that person does not go to the authorities and provide clear evidence for prosecution, that person is also letting people off.
I know that this is hard to do. Since this has gone public in February, people on this blog have said that a majority of Savannah's Jews talk in Shule, we are all inbred, and we are all small minded. Someone even said that the victims souls are lost. It is obvious that there are those who want to blame the victims. I understand the attacks on the actual victims could be worse.
There are many of us who are ready to help you through this. This includes many wonderful Savannah Rabbis, Savannah's Jewish Family Services, the JEA, and others. We will do all we can to stand behind you.
Also, you must get professional help. This professional help must include people who know how to treat sexual abuse issues. Please do so for yourself.
If you were victimized, you did nothing wrong. For the parents, you were not stupid for letting it happen. A lot of us were fooled. None of us had ever encountered someone like this. He has charisma, seemed to really want to help, and seemed so gifted.
I have small children. I want them to be safe. We must break this cycle. If Shmuel gets out and moves to a different community where they don't know him and he abuses someone else's boy, you will bear some of the responsibility. This would be similar to those in Baltimore who are accused of covering up and protecting the violators which allows others to be victims. Since you did not do what was necessary to enable the U.S. Justice System to protect those children from him, you allowed him to do it again.
Parents of victims. Please support your sons and strongly encourage them to speak. As I stated before, District Attorney Spencer Lawton's Victim Witness Assistance program can be a lot of help. I also personally know people in the F.B.I. in Savannah and they are very compassionate people. They will make sure that Shmuel is locked up for as long as possible.
But if victims fail to provide evidence so convictions can be made, Shmuel will be let out sooner and there will be other victims. I suspect that would be harder to live with than being a victim.
abe,
1. How old are you? How many years have you lived in Baltimore.
2. Baltimore has a large orthodox community. At one time I considered moving to Baltimore, yet changed my mind. I felt like I would be moving into a cult like atmosphere I didn't feel it was a healthy environment for my children.
3. You make me laugh when you think Baltimore is more willing to talk about it? The problem is rabbis Heinemann, Hopfer and Neuberger. The gangster trio when it comes to dealing with sexual abuse in Baltimore. They are great at hushing things up. If you don't shut up they chase you outta town.
4. Juravel's family is very tied into the gangster trio. What saddens me is that his ex-wife never stood a chance. She's related to a member of the gangster trio.
5. The leading rabbis (gangster trio) are extremely protective of their assets. It's not the people, it's the money they can make off of the people. I've read the survivors testimony that's up on The Awareness Center's page. I can't help but ask, what education and training does Hopfer have to make a determination that the survivor (Eisgrau's daughter) was lying? I think the majority of people living in Baltimore should undergo a psychological evaluations. A vast number of them have chronic mental illness. The difference is that Eisgrau's daughter is a survivor of a sex crime. She realized there was a problem with the way she was coping with the situation and got the help needed. She's an extremely brave and courageous woman. Not only did she get the help needed, she helps others who have been victimized too.
6. I worry about the rest of Eisgrau's children. I wish they would all go to the Baltimore Child Abuse Center and get evaluated. I think anyone who is a minor who stayed in the Eisgrau home should also be evaluated. You can't always see the symptoms of a child who has been abused.
7. It's not uncommon for someone who is an incest survivor to have multiple offenders. Incest is far more then just a family affair. It changes a person for life. I hardly would call any of the Eisgrau's relatives "saintly," Right there is a red flag that you (abe) are being manipulated by the "gangster trio."
8. Aviva Weisbord -- A therapist who breaches confidentiality and see's children of friends. Hard to call someone who does that "ethical, honest and professional and would not warp her judgment due to pressure." Don't forget that Aviva Weisbord's brother is Matis. A known child molester who's gotten away with his crimes for over 40 years. Is it that hard to make the leap from her protecting her brother to protecting Eisgrau?
9. According to Luke Fords page, the police detective who invested the allegations got stonewalled. Hard to make a case against a sex offender when the community was instructed by the gangster trio not to provide any information to the cops.
10. I'm sorry, you live in fantasyland on this one: "except for her story, which ALL involved reject, there is no other evidence. I saw one boy who didn't like the way eisgrau treated him. Every principal and teacher has 1 or 2 out of hundreds who hold a grudge."
11. "Is it possible that eisgrau spanked his daughter when she was young? Many parents do (and many more did)," Um is there a difference between molesting a child and spanking them? Do you really think that his daughter got confused between the two?
13. Eisgrau needs to be evaluated by a psychologist who specializes in sex offenders. This individual should be outside of the Baltimore community. One who has NO connection to the gangster trio. Otherwise the evaluation will be scene as another manipulation by the gangster trio.
14. "isn't eisgrau innocent until proven guilty?" Unfortunately a child molester molests on average 117 times. How many parents do you know who are innocent of raping their children would cut themselves off and allow their teenage daughter to be homeless? This just isn't normal. He cared more about his reputation then he did about the health and well being of his own child. He's a manipulator, just like Mordecai Gafni.
15. I think it's appropriate for someone who was raped as a child to hold a grudge against all her offenders, even if they are her parents and grandparents. I also think it would be appropriate for a survivor to hold a grudge against a community like Baltimore.
Throwing away a Jew or human being.
The community didn't throw juravel away, he threw himself away.
And for Bobby, I truly think what he is doing is senseless. To continue to be "friends" with juravel..to what avail ?
And as several other posters keep asking,would Bobby jump to the defense of juravel if he had molested anyone in his family.
Is Bobby that callas to the victims and their parents not to understand just what juravel has done. If his own daughters were molested,would he want to defend or be friends with the molester ?
I would hope not although the stance that he has taken,yopu never know. Bobby, this isn't just a traffic ticked that shmuel got in trouble or even stock fraud..For G-D sake,it's child molestation..Having sex with young boys..and this is your friends ?
oy, Hashem y'rachem. You need help. You are not Moses.
lock him up, Shmuel is going to be found guilty. There's enough evidence. He will be forced to be on a registry wherever he lives and if he fails to report will go away for life.
The damage is done. What happens next is not your responsibility. He's been caught. He can't escape. I'm a parent too. You want blood?
ABE:
Your post looks more like propaganda than anything else.
Lets go down your list of propaganda:
you said-
"some facts:"
I say-No. These are not facts, they are your opinion.
"you said-1 balto has one of the biggest orthodox communities outside of NY. even if all the names being discussed are guilty, that makes up less than 1% of 1%."
I say-This may the only thing you are correct on although I cannot be certain that your math is correct.
you said-"2 maybe many balto names are listed because this web site comes from balto and maybe it shows balto is more willing to talk about it. do you really think it isn't much worse in NY, for example.
-I say- There have been many postings about other cities, including NY. In NY, however, the majority of people are disgusted and taking action. In Baltimore, the only actions being taken are by the people on this website. The majority of Balto., ESPECIALLY THE RABBIS, are doing nothing.
you said-"3 juravel moved to savannah because he married a girl from there. the rabbis didn't kick him out."
I say-Shmuel did move to Savannah because he married a Savannah girl, but he was also pushed out of Baltimore after his actions there called for it.
you said-"4 i know the leading rabbis. they are extremely protective of the entire community. if s/o was a proven threat, they would publicize it. but they aren't going to ruin s/o based on a rumor."
I say-The Rabbis would do no such thing. They are more interested in the he stigma that Shmuel's outing would have on the yeshiva community. They are concerned about maintaining a following and making money. Many Balto. Rabbis knew and know what Shmuel did.
you said-"5 eisgrau has helped so many children, you can't count them. NONE have complained. I met a boy who stayed in his home for awhile - the boy owes his life to eisgrau. i got to know this boy well - he only praised eisgrau."
I say- At a simcha I attended in Balto., I met many adults who were students of Eisgrau. Almost every one of them (there were about 25) claimed that Eisgrau violated them or their friends. These were adults.
you said-"6 eisgrau has 9 or 10 children. they live in a small house, a few kids to a bedroom. it also is an open house, people coming and going, even into the night and over night. all the other children only admire their father and mentor."
I say-you have no idea what goes on in that house. Maybe the riffraff of so many children and the hectic nature of the house lends itself to these sick events occurring there. You make assumptions based on your perceptions. I think you are misguided.
you said-"7 this one daughter admits she was in a mental hospital."
I say-her father is the reason she committed herself to a mental hospital. Would you not have issues if your father molested you.
you said-"8 she accuses a few people of harassment, included her saintly grandfather, her mother's father."
I say-Maybe her grandfather was not as saintly as he seemed. I do not know that for sure, but neither do you. Maybe this was a family problem that attracted more molesters. After all, there other brother-in-law was convicted of molesting his own children as well. It seems that molesters attract other molesters to the family.
You said-"9 I know her therapist, weisbord. she is honest and professional and would not warp her judgment due to pressure."
I say-Obviously not. Several people maintain that she is a pawn of the Rabbis and many do not trust her. Your opinion is irrelevant.
You said-"10 she accuses the rabbis of things they wouldn't do. in fact, she accuses everyone in her story."
I say-Rabbis would do these things. Day by day we hear story after story about these horrific events occurring and Rabbis are the perpetrators. Perhaps there are too many Rabbis. Maybe some of them should get jobs. The Rabbis failure to confront these problems is the reason that this will reflect badly on Jews like the Catholic Church. It is the Rabbis fault. If they would actually confront the problem we would not look so bad. Also, she did not accuse everyone. She accuses her father and grandfather, Dr. Weisbord, and Heinneman and Hopfer. The last I checked they are not EVERYONE. Oh, and she mentions that one of her brothers molested a girl and that it was covered up. It makes sense that the brother would have issues if his father molests boys.
You said-"11 the civil authorities also don't believe her."
I say- That is not true, a complete falsehood. The authorities merely said that they could not corroborate her story. However, they attributed this to the fact that the Jewish community, especially the Rabbis would not help them. The police said that they never experienced as much of a lack of cooperation as they did when they attempted to investigate Eisgrau. Unfortunately, they received no help and were unable to find out what may very well be the truth, that Eisgrau is a molestor.
You said-"12 except for her story, which ALL involved reject, there is no other evidence. i saw one boy who didn't like the way eisgrau treated him. every principal and teacher has 1 or 2 out of hundreds who hold a grudge that's not called evidence."
I say- There were many more than 1 out of 200 that claim he molested them. If he molested me I would hole a grudge too. Many who are uncertain about whether Eisgrau molested children feel that he is physically abusive to children in general. His methods of disciplining school-children have been criticized for a long time.
You said-"13 is it possible that eisgrau spanked his daughter when she was young? many parents do (and many more did)."
I say- There is a difference between spanking and copping a feel. I am certain that his daughter would know the difference. Also, I am sure he did spank her as well. Apparently, he likes to spank many children.
You said-"14 those who have looked into the evidence have all given eisgrau a clean bill of health. how can people who are reading unconfirmed bits and pieces come to any reasonable conclusion? shouldn't we give the benefit of the doubt to those who are known for their widespread righteousness, moral good character, and wisdom?"
I say-Many people disagree with you. If Eisgrau did these things he is certainly not righteous. Lets say Eisgrau molested your kid and you knew that he did. What if everyone else said the same thing to you-"We don't believe you or your kid b/c Eisgrau is a Rabbi and he is righteous." What kind of an argument are you making? Are Rabbis immune from any claim that they do anything wrong merely b/c of their title? If you know that a Rabbi did something inappropriate and he says "No I did not"- does that mean that he did not do it? Also, those who have looked into the evidence are biased and cannot be trusted. I will only believe that Eisgrau is innocent when the Rabbis back down and everyone FULLY COOPERATES with the authorities. The way things have gone so far I think that they are hiding something.
You said-"15 isn't eisgrau innocent until proven guilty? especially since he has literally hundreds who will testify for his absolute kindness."
-I say- I do not care about the hundreds that claim Eisgrau is good and kind when there are so many others that claim that he is neither.
You said-"should we convict him based on a mental patient who has a grudge against all her parents and grandparents? "
I say- If she had a grudge and their were no other claims against her father that would be one thing. Since there are so many others that claim the same thing, however, I say WHERE THERE IS SMOKE THERE IS FIRE. Boy is there ever a lot of smoke.
abe you are a complete baltiMORON! and you know what -- if you have such a close relationship with the leading rabbis why don't you ask them about the Brad Case. There was a young fellow living in bancroft apartments and he used to molest little boys and have them over to watch porn. It was a huge hushed up case. we were all scared of the creep. R' Heineman, Hopfer and Neuberger absolutely REFUSED to acknowledge the fact that this "wonderful bochur" was a sexual predator. they tried to convince the parents the children were lying even when the story emerged several times from separate young boys. Oh and ofcourse the police was kept out - just like any good old mafia knows how to do... to make a long story short this bad Brad felt threatened after a few years (with the victims growing older, I guess) and he himself went over to Heineman and CONFESSED. you hear me abe? he went to the leading rabbi and said rabbi i molested those boys what should i do. rabbi said i must put a cherem on you. you may NOT come back to baltimore. and Heineman apoligized to us boys and told us he "took care of the problem" Now abe be careful when you take your boys to NY cuz thats were brad relocated... with his child molestor tendencies...
so abe, that grew up in baltimore, ask those leading rabbis about the fact that they DID NOT publicise Brad. why the children of Brooklyn need to be the next victims of his sickness...
I grew up in Baltimore, too. I know the bitter truth... you fool to believe that Eisgrau is just as innocent...
Another poster stated:
"lock him up, Shmuel is going to be found guilty. There's enough evidence. He will be forced to be on a registry wherever he lives and if he fails to report will go away for life.
The damage is done. What happens next is not your responsibility. He's been caught. He can't escape. I'm a parent too. You want blood? "
If someone is found guilty or guilty of a lesser crime, then the person could be released.
Until there has been a conviction and a sentence, the outcome is in doubt.
When it comes to protecting our children, we should take no chances.
We should provide as much evidence as possible. The more evidence, the stronger the conviction and sentence.
The Brad case is public knowledge and absolutely confirms what people have been saying for a long time- THAT THE RABBIS COVER THESE INCIDENTS UP. THE RABBIS-HOPFER,HEINEMANN,NEUBERGER- ARE A MAJOR PART OF THE PROBLEM.
Maybe we should put the Rabbis in Cherem. After all, they do it to everyone else.
click on my name and it will take you directly to "The Brad Case" discussion.
has the baltimore bais din put vicki polin in cherem?
Posters are is asking Bobby the question: Would you defend or be-friend Shmuel if he molested your daughter? For several reasons, I do not believe that is the proper perspective. I think the proper perspective is how would you act towards Shmuel if Shmuel were YOUR son or father or brother. Would you forsake him …or would you try to help him ? I believe this perspective gives us guidance closer in the ways of Hashem.
Shmuel is not Bobby's son,brother or father.
Shmuel has lied to this entire Jewish community including Bobby.
He has taken advantage of all of us.
I'm not sure just what I'd do if a son / brother / relative committed the same crimes that shmuel committed. I just don't know !
I would like to see a statement by shmuel, sent through his friend Bobby, showing some remorse, apology, something for what he has done, before I could even think about any feeling toward shmuel.
I simply don't understand the compassion by some people towards shmuel. Most likely, they don't have children that were prone to be molested by shmuel.
This "poor shmuelly" feeling by some is way out of my reach.
Thank G-d he's not my son.
Can the Baltimore community put someone who is not observant in cherem? If they can, how does that work?
I believe the questions being asked of Bobby are valid questions.
Would any of us defend any person that molested or hurt our child / wife / parent / et al.
Bobby stated that he doesn't think the guidelines for sentencing are correct. Then he should lobby to change the law not defend a person who molested our children to fight the sentence that he doesn't agree with.
Would any of us, including Bobby, think that the sentencing guidelines were wrong if our / his family were the ones molested.
How in the world can shmuel be defended ? Bobby knows some of the
children that schmuel went after.
If any thing, Bobby could help law enforce by urging the children to come forth to insure that justice IS carried out.
Bobby is a good guy. Shmuel is a son of hasham too.
deal with that.
You are hurt, upset. That is understandable. He's in jail and will deal with his new life outside the beautiful city of Savannah.
To the person who posted that he met a group of Eisgrau survivors at a simcha..
First of all, if people are speaking so openly about this and there are as many victims as you claim why won't these adult victim/survivors get together and do something???? would you please PLEASE encourage these survivors to go to the authoraties, or at least contact the awareness center( even anonymously) about it?! Eisgrau is A PRINCIPAL of an ELEMENTARY SCHOOL and COULD BE MOLESTING AN INNOCENT CHILD AT THIS VERY MOMENT for God sake!! Will it take 15 more years, and who knows how many more victims, for people to speak up?? Think of the children!
Hey,genius,maybe all these so called eisgrau victims have not come forward because they simply dont exist, outside the the world of this blog.As a former T.I student I have spoken to around 40 other alumni,all who think these allegation are ludicrous.By continuing to harp on the bogus Eisgrau case you only hurt other more credible claims of abuse.
you wrote:
Hey,genius,maybe all these so called eisgrau victims have not come forward because they simply dont exist, outside the the world of this blog.As a former T.I student I have spoken to around 40 other alumni,all who think these allegation are ludicrous.By continuing to harp on the bogus Eisgrau case you only hurt other more credible claims of abuse.
Answer:
With all the thugs living in Baltimore falsely using the title of rabbi, rav, harav -- using thier power and influence to silence survivors of Eisgrau, Salamon, Tendler, Weinberg, Fleischman (just to name a few), you really need an answer.
One has got to ask -- What kind of koolaid are you drinking these days?
Here's an assignment for everyone who reads this blog. Too many people in Baltimore stopped thinking for themselves. How about helping me out with this list?
Top Ten Ways You Know You Are Being Manipulated By The Rav's of Baltimore
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
To those in Savannah who don't want to report to authorities what Shmuel did because you are certain of a conviction, see what Baltimore is going through.
Failure to report all and see that prosecution succeeds sets others up to be victimized.
In Savannah, there are victims who are afraid to report to authorities even when the Rav has encouraged the community to do so publicly from the Bima.
There are probably victims of him and others in Baltimore afraid to report without any pressure from Ravs.
All victims in Baltimore need to be encouraged to go to the FBI. This will take the local police and any corruption out of the mix.
If anyone, including Rabbis interferes with the FBI, there will be consequences.
The FBI wants to protect victims and prevent more victims. That is the FBI's main objective.
But whether in Baltimore, Savannah, or any where else, if you don't report to authorities and see it through prosecution, others WILL BE VICTIMIZED.
If you hate rabbis, you have a problem.
You ascribe to rabbis more powers than they actually possess.
With hindsight, it is clear that some errors were made. The point has been made here that thinking "live and let live" is a good thing is clearly wrong when molesters/offenders simply move off to another community where they do the same crimes. That's why law enforcement requires a registry. This is a relatively new development. You can't blame the rabbis, I think, for doing what everybody else in America did for decades. They are a product of their time. You are a product of yours.
If any new allegations come to light about new victims, documented by police reports of rape, actual molestation and abuse, I have no doubt every community will see to it that justice is done.
To accuse eisgrau, without evidence, other than the hearsay of one individual who may have mental problems, is simply not credible.
period.
smoke? it's raining.
What a neat and tidy package. When the police detective was stonewalled in the Eisgrau case, how could evidence be collected?
How about him getting evaluated by a psychologist who specializes in sex offenders? Because of how corupt Baltimore is, I suggest that the evaluator be outside of the eruv, and perhaps it would be better if the individual wasn't even Jewish. It's a way to ensure there are no pay offs for the evaluation.
How about contacting SNAP and see who they would recommend. If they are cleared by a SNAP recommended psychologist. I know for myself I would be convinced he was innocent.
If you don't know who SNAP is, follow this link
http://www.snapnetwork.org/
It saddens me greatly to read this blog. The hate and denial some people surround themselves with is pitiful. To the people who keep defending the Rabbi in Baltimore, stating his daughter was crazy, not molested, pay close attention:
Oprah had these two women on her show last week. They had both been captured by a crazed rapist/molestor who kept them in a cave underneath his home. This was a MILLIONARE who seemed odd to his neighbors, but not dangerous. He secretly kept this life hidden from a wife living in this home and his grown children. One day he let one of his victims go home. He dropped her off at her home TWO years after capturing her, raping her dozens of times daily, and starving her, leaving her to urinate on the floor, sleep on the floor, and never be allowed to brush her teeth or bathe. After getting home she went to the police. They did not believe her as the man had made her write a letter to her family saying she was in drug rehab. She gave them a complete description of the man, the make and model of his car, and many other clues. Still, she was told there was not enough validity to her story and sent her on her way being told she was "crazy"! Years later they found out he had continued this and he did the same thing to 4 or 5 other women. (all who were under 15 when they were captured).They were All released and one who was lucky enough to get him caught. This officer, who was also on Oprah, told this lady ( who was now 25 and who was abducted when she was 14), how sorry he was that he did not believe her. Her only comment was "If you had believed me, followed through on the clues I gave you, 5 other woman would not have been raped and bruatlized over a 10 year period of time.
So to you skeptics, Rabbi-loving, denial-ridden human beings, shut up already. PEOPLE do not say they are molested on a regular basis if it is not true. Yes, there are many cases of false accusations and people who state things have happened when indeed, they have not. However, how dare you accuse someone of being crazy simply because you have had too much Jim Jones Koolaid. You can come back to me with any defense, more of your mumbo jumbo, I will not care. However, you are the people who keep this molestation alive. You are the reason "EE" (EVIL Eisgrau) has been able to stay where he is and abuse countless more. Shmuel is just another predator who will abuse again if released. Here is a man who is head of a school and you people allow this. I live in Savannah. I knew Shmuel well. I also know that he asked for help years ago and NO ONE helped him. Deny, deny, deny.....drink your koolaid and keep calling Evil eisgrau innocent. Maybe if he had put his penis near your childs mouth, fondled your daughters vagina, made your son do things he did want to do, you would not be so quick to label your own offspring crazy. You make me sick and all you Baltimorons can rot in hell. Shame on you for allowing something that could have been prevented a long time ago to still exist. Shame on you for drinking that koolaid day after day. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, fondles like a duck, it is Evil Eisgrau, Shmuel Juravel, and all the otehr syou insane people keep defending and letting loose on your children. You all sicken me. Oh, and by the way, YOU ARE CRAZY!
Hey....people thinking Eisgrau is so innocent...read this...a judge let him go thinking he was innocent "enough" also..
Couey, 47, was charged with first-degree murder, sexual battery on a child, kidnapping and burglary. He has pleaded not guilty. Prosecutors said they will seek the death penalty if he is convicted.
Couey was staying at a mobile home near where Jessica lived in Homosassa. According to court records, Couey told investigators he took the girl from her room, raped her, swaddled her in garbage bags and buried her alive in the yard.
HMMMMMMMMM.....let's let these freaks stay out in the world because you think they are telling the truth. There are thousands of Jessica Lunsford's who will be victims of REPEAT offenders. Don't you think it is enough already? I do! To all you "believers" from Baltimore, Savannah, Florida, New York...WHEREVER! Wake up and smell the coffee. Take Eisgrau, Take the yarmulke off, shave the long beard, remove the black hat, long black coat, and all the other camoflauge, and he is just another John Evander Couey waiting for his next victim. Maybe it is your kids attending TI. OMG! I cannot believe you arrogant, IGNORANT, selfless people. It is moments like this where I am so glad I am the person and parent I am. I feel so sorry for all these religious children who are forced to be around these sick human beings you put on these kosher pedastals.
Yes, SMOKE. Obviously, you cannot read very well. I clearly stated that there are many victims, not just one "mental patient" as you so kindly refer to her. I think you should refrain from the name calling. Don't you think you would end up a mental patiend if your father molested you?
This blog is titled,"Case of Shmuel Juravel".
Open up another blog regarding eisgrau or whatever, but keep this blog about the pervert juravel and the "friends" that he has that want to see him get off or have a lighter sentence because they don't believe in the federal guidelines to sentence child molesters.
All come forth regarding Juravel. Let's make sure he can't abuse our children any more.
The "friend" of Juravel that wants to help Juravel is misguided with his "friendship".
Juravel is a child molester,that simple. To call him "a friend" , this evil person is just nuts.
Juravel knew everything he was doing for years, hiding behind his tallis while thinking of the molestation that would take place.
To defend this person for a lighter sentence of to get him off
simply doesn't make any sense at all,especially knowing all the victims..no way and yet it's being done. Sort of sick.taking "friendship" to a new low level.
This blog is marginalized. The whiners are ignored. Facts are facts.
If it walks like a fact, talks like a fact, is a fact.
Innuendo, irrelevant comparisons, accusations equating molestation with "let him do what he wants" are at best weak.
You are not nice people. Most reasonable people want justice, fair justice, not jaundiced justice, set on hateful revenge, but safety for our children and honest weights and measures. When you are biased, you cease to be neutral. If you are hurting, you should see a therapist and/or sue for millions of dollars and help build an international headquarters for the awareness center in new york or d.c..
Since when has anyone ever been nice when the discussion of sexual abuse or assault has occurred?
Is there really ever any justice when it comes to these sorts of crimes?
I agree with the idea of sending donations to The Awareness Center. I already sent a check today.
if the police want to investigate someone, the orthodox community can't stop them. most of us would be way too scared not to answer police questions.
the police are trained and seasoned pros - they know how to get around the so-called "stone wall" community.
if the police say there is no case, it makes sense to believe them.
the rabbis have been carefully appointed to their posts because hundreds of people admire their wisdom ,honesty, and abilty to deal properly with people.
sure there have been a few bad apples, but anyone who hates so many of the rabbis is showing a prejudice so great that it sheds doubt on all of his comments.
The Rabbi's at the large Shul's make alot of money. It's a well paying job. They cater to the people in the Shul's that have money, the others,forget it.
They also cover up for each other
especially in the frum Shuls. Hear no evil,see no evil, speak no evil ,I don't know anything, didn't see anythng, don't start trouble, the goys will pick up on it..that's the mind set. Not good.
Knowing that, many people are reluctent to come forth to the Rabbi's with the truth. Money talks,prominate families talk, the fear of being on the outs with the Rabbi scares the people. They then would sooner turn their heads than cause trouble even if stuff is true.
Cops are often lazy and corrupt. They like to eat donuts. They are not always seasoned pros. When a whole community stone-walls, it is very likely that they could hide the sick truth. And yes, Baltimorons certainly do seem crazy.
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